August 2, 2011

Butch - An interview with Mike Surprenant & Joe Goodman

Butch - "The Bitch Of Rock & Roll" on Sunndial Records (1977)
You're Gonna Die
Love Me Too
I'm Your Slave
Girl From The City
You've Never Had It Like This Before
Fire King
Can't Get Enough
Movin' On Down The Line

(Editor’s note: I was very hesitant about leading off with this article, since in all honesty it is rather incomplete.  Unfortunately Mike and Joe were unable to provide photos or rare audio and there were murky periods in the band's lifespan that no one can account for.  Eventually both fell off my radar.)


IF YOU DON’T MIND, LET’S START FROM THE BEGINNING.  HOW, WHERE AND WHEN DID BUTCH COME INTO EXISTENCE?

Mike: Butch was actually a product of Joe Goodman, myself and another guy by the name of John Chapman.  We grew up together in Utica, NY and were childhood friends.  We were pretty young then.  We were all huge Beatles fanatics and we played Beatles songs together a lot.  This was roughly late 1964 and I believe we were called The Ravens.

Joe: We worked out all the intricate harmonies and practiced for hours.  I’d usually sing McCartney’s part and John and Mike would work out the other parts.  I remember I was 14 when I wrote my first song, heavily influenced, of course, by The Beatles.  It was called, “Don’t Take Your Love Away From Me”.  I was also impressed by the vocal harmonies of the Everly Brothers, not to mention Elvis’ gritty rhythm and blues numbers. 

Mike: A year or so later, we appeared on a Utica TV show called “Twist-A-Rama”.  We were actually pretty popular on the show and the reason was because Joe told the audience his name was Paul (it really is his middle name) Austen and that he was from Liverpool, England.  He even spoke with a bona fide English accent! (laughs)

Joe: The hype worked like a charm.  I became somewhat of a local celebrity with girls running and screaming after me at our gigs.  I received fan mail from female admirers and the rest of the band all thought, “Now this is something we’d all love to do!”  A real phenomenon of the times, perhaps, or just getting the right PR to get recognition but it did the trick! 

Mike: The show was quite an anomaly, in that it lasted for so long.  We still have acquaintances today from our time on that show. 

Joe: I recall meeting Sam the Sham when he and his Pharoahs arrived for a guest appearance.  Sam had a great voice for rock and roll and a good sense of showmanship.  “Wooly Bully” is also one of the greatest rock and roll songs from the period.

WHO WERE THE BAND MEMBERS AT THIS TIME?

Mike: Joe Goodman (guitar, vocals), myself (guitar, vocals), John Chapman (bass) and countless drummers.  We really could never find a drummer who would stick around. 

Joe: We played with many temps or session drummers over the years. 

WHAT WAS THE INSPIRATION FOR THE NAME BUTCH?

Joe:  I really can’t remember.

Mike: To tell you the truth, I can’t remember how we came up with that name, either.  The only thing I can come up with is that my brother’s nickname was Butch, so I imagine that’s where we got it. (laughs)

WHAT WERE THE BAND’S INFLUENCES?

Mike: Well, besides the Beatles, we were influenced by a lot of other British invasion bands, especially the Rolling Stones.  We liked Deep Purple too. 

Joe: I was impressed by Ritchie Blackmore’s expertise on the guitar and studied the techniques of many talented guitarists from that period, like Ronnie Montrose, Eric Clapton, Mark Farner, Johnny Winter, Rick Derringer.  I was intrigued by Frank Zappa’s unique style of atonal and experimental music, utilizing unusual instruments and harmonies.  James Brown was also an influence, especially his early rhythm and blues material.  I certainly agree with Mike that the British Invasion bands probably had the most profound influence on us.  There were so many of them at the time, first and foremost among them being The Beatles, and of course, The Rolling Stones, The Animals, The Kinks, Them, The Zombies, The Hollies, Gerry and the Pacemakers, The Searchers and lesser known artists like Johnny Kidd and the Pirates and Billy Fury.

ONCE YOU WERE REHEARSED FOR THE STAGE, WHERE DID YOU TYPICALLY PLAY?

Mike: Around 1972, we got a house band gig at a bar in Rome, NY playing every weekend.  It was a real tough biker bar and that’s really where we started developing a theatrical stage show.  That job lasted three years.

Joe: It was one of the toughest crowds outside of “Pirates of the Caribbean”.  The place was so wild they used to actually ride in there on their hogs revving their engines and there was always at least one fight a night.  The last I heard, the bartender was still wanted for a triple homicide.  We billed our show as the ‘Carnival Freak Show’ or ‘Cavalcade of Freaks’. I can’t remember which now.  We figured if we could play to that audience and survive, we could play anywhere.  At that time the performers included ‘Jeningo The Clown’, a guy who wore a pointed hat and told stale off-color jokes to the audience.  This was long before Matt Greoning ever thought of Krusty!  We also had a fire-eater who dressed up in what he thought was a red devil outfit, but who looked more like a demented Santa Claus. 

I recall two memorable incidents when he accidentally set himself on fire and ran out of the club in flames.   On another occasion, he threw a flaming guitar right through the nightclub window, shattering glass with billows of gray and noxious fumes gagging everyone in the club.  The guitar was so hot he couldn’t hold on to it and sent it sailing through the air and crashing through the window.  You can’t make stuff like this up!  When the owner approached us we thought for sure that we were finished there.  Instead, he enthusiastically said, “Hey, that was great!  Can you do it again tomorrow night?”.  We also had a glass-eater who called himself ‘Snapper’ who usually ended his performance with his mouth gushing blood. 

Mike: It was really kind of unusual for an area band to be doing stuff like that at the time.  But playing at one club every weekend for 3yrs really did consume a lot of our time, so there weren’t many other places we played during our time in NY. 

WHAT PROMPTED THE BAND’S RELOCATION TO CALIFORNIA?

Mike: Well, Joe left for California for about a year and when he came back to NY, he told us there was an opportunity to record an album and book gigs out west.  So, I quit my job and off we went.  John decided to stay behind, so Joe brought another area bassist, Angelo Alati, into the band and we all moved out to California.

(Editor’s note: Utica native, Angelo Alati, was a 20yr old hairdresser with an outrageous sense of punk style and attitude.)

PLEASE TELL US WHERE YOU RECORDED THE LP AND WHAT YOU RECALL ABOUT YOUR SESSIONS THERE?

Mike: We picked up a local session drummer, Steve Taylor, and started recording the album at Goldmine Studios in Ventura, CA.  The guys who owned and operated the studio were just starting out, so we were all kind of helping each other out during the sessions.  I’m pretty sure we recorded the album on an eight-track and we recorded our sessions at night, though I’m not really sure why.  We recorded the whole album in maybe a week.  During the recording of the album we weren’t satisfied with Angelo’s playing, so I ended up playing bass on a few of the tracks.  Angelo was out before the recording was finished and we credited him as ‘Otto Ogre’ on the album.  (laughs)

Joe: I recall that we were pressed for time and finished the vocal tracks in one night, between 1am and 5am.  We had enough material for three albums, actually, so we just picked at random what would go on the record.




WHAT INSPIRED THE TITLE, “THE BITCH OF ROCK & ROLL”?

Mike: That came from Angelo.  I never really understood it, but it sounded theatrical so we just decided to go with it.

Joe: Angelo said something about The Rolling Stones being his inspiration for the title.

SUNNDIAL RECORDS WERE RESPONSIBLE FOR RELEASING THE LP.  WHAT CAN YOU TELL US ABOUT SUNNDIAL RECORDS AND HOW DID BUTCH BECOME ASSOCIATED WITH THEM?

Mike: Steve had connections with the guy that owned Sunndial and they were based out of Lancaster, CA.  They were a small independent company and only had maybe three or four releases under their belts before they went under. 

HOW MANY COPIES WERE PRESSED?

Mike: I believe there were 5,000 copies pressed.  We sold quite a few of them while we were out in California.

THE SONGS WERE PENNED EXCLUSIVELY BY EITHER YOU OR JOE GOODMAN.  WERE VOCAL DUTIES HANDLED SIMILARLY?

Mike: Yes.  Joe and I both sang lead on the album.  We even sang each other’s songs, so we weren’t singing our own songs exclusively.  Whoever was best suited to sing a song did the job.  I handled the majority of the lead vocals on the album, but Joe did sing “You’ve Never Had It Like This Before” and “Love Me Too”.  We both took turns on “I’m Your Slave”.

I UNDERSTAND THAT A LINEUP CHANGE TOOK PLACE SHORTLY AFTER THE ALBUM WAS COMPLETED.  CAN YOU TELL US WHAT PRECIPITATED THIS?

Mike: Steve had some problems with the law, you know, fighting in bars and things like that, so it became very uncomfortable for us New Yorkers all the way out in California.  Once the album was finished, we let him go.

Joe: We played with a number of other session drummers the rest of the time we were in California.

I PRESUME BUTCH PLAYED IN SUPPORT OF THE ALBUM.  WHAT VENUES DID YOU FREQUENT and WHAT WAS THE SCENE LIKE AT THAT TIME?

Mike: Yea, we played the area and played a lot in Los Angeles.  Places like The Whisky and The Starwood.  For the most part we weren’t playing top billing at those venues, but we supported acts like Ray Manzarek and Van Halen.

WERE YOU FRIENDLY WITH ANY OTHER ACTS IN THE AREA?

Mike: Well, you know we were acquainted with a lot of them but never really struck up friendships with any band.  It was totally cutthroat out there.  At the time, punk was just beginning to break and L.A. was mostly just a lot of hard rock bands then.  We sort of fell into the punk scene, even though I never really felt we belonged.  So there was a lot of animosity towards punk bands at the time. 

Joe:  The fact is we didn’t really have much in common with the punk bands and their rage against society.  I spent an entire night with Darby Crash and some friends a week before he committed suicide, but I could never get with their pre-goth futility of life philosophy.  Some of the stuff they produced was interesting and original, but I was more fascinated by the resurgence of Rockabilly.  I did like Madness, though, and a couple of other ska bands. 

DID YOU RECEIVE RADIO SUPPORT OR HAVE ANY PROMOTION BEHIND THE RECORD?

Mike: We received quite a bit of radio support in the area and all the way south to Los Angeles.  Sunndial had some promotion people working the album and we did quite a few radio interviews to promote it.

WERE THERE ANY OTHER RECORDINGS MADE BY BUTCH DURING ITS LIFESPAN?

Mike: No, not really.  Nothing that was recorded in a studio anyway.

Joe: We had the material but it just didn’t pan out. I still have three notebooks full of original songs, or bits and pieces of them.

WHAT BROUGHT ON THE DEMISE OF THE BAND?

Mike: We left California after about a year and went back to New York around the end of 1977.  We were doing well out west, but not well enough to take us to the next level.  So we went home.  We played a few community college gigs in preparation for a showcase we were doing at CBGB’s.  Joe never showed up for the gig and Butch basically split then.  I still don’t know, to this day, why Joe never showed up but he ended up going back to California and I never saw him again.

Joe: I really don’t remember why either.

CAN YOU TELL US WHAT EACH OF YOU DID, MUSICALLY OR OTHERWISE, AFTER THE BREAKUP OF BUTCH?

Mike: I continued playing in area bands until last year.  Now I’m playing the area solo with just an acoustic guitar.  I also was a corrections officer for NY state and was the treasurer for the corrections officers union here in NY until I retired.  John Chapman ended up working for a company who produces advertising and promotional spots for national bands.  They’re one of the biggest in the country. 

Joe: After Butch split, Angelo and I worked together in a number of bands, most notably a band that included ex-Captain Beefheart and future Red Hot Chili Peppers drummer, Cliff Martinez.   Around that time we were appearing on the cult TV show, New Wave Theater.  Cliff and I collaborated on a few songs when he was working with us.  I think they were “Tractor Trailer Tragedy”, “Human Bacteria”, “Dunce”, “Ricky Ricardo”, “Split Personality” and a depressing little dirge entitled “Suicide Sally”.  I remember one tune we actually covered was the old instrumental by The Tornados, “Telstar”.  We jammed it out ‘a presto’ and I added a smoking lead where I relied on the whammy bar for maximum effect.   “Tractor Trailer Tragedy” made it onto a compilation album.  Try finding it today!  I remember we had to bring in a new female singer at the last minute because our primary singer was indisposed.  

We often played same billing with bands like The Cramps, Fear and 45 Grave.  I disliked playing on the same bill with Fear because the place always smelled like stale beer after they performed and the floor and stage were slick with it.  We owed a lot during this period to Tequila Mockingbird, who was one of the programming directors for New Wave Theater.  She believed in us and opened new doors that led to recording sessions.  Aside from that she is a fabulous lady and a talented singer.  We later appeared in Paul Morrissey’s cult film, “Madame Wang’s”. 

I should also say something about Angelo.  Angelo was heavily into the theatrical aspects of performing and was studying books and techniques relative to stage makeup and so on, and that was his real area of expertise, but there’s no denying his commitment to music. He loved music with a passion.  He was also a good friend and I was very saddened by the news of his death.  The last project we worked on together was called The Teddy Boys.  I had written new material for the project, but shortly after our first few rehearsals, Angelo became ill and I never heard from him after that. 

After the breakup of Butch, Mike and I both continued to independently perform a song we had written together called “Ward 8”.  It’s one of my favorite tunes from the period but I never got around to recording it in a studio.  However, we did perform it live and I remember someone telling me that Ray Manzarek of the Doors was in the audience and was duly impressed with it. I think Mike has a version of his own that he recorded back east. 


(Editor’s note:  Angelo Alati returned to Utica in the mid-80’s after testing HIV positive.  He continued to perform with area bands until the mid-90’s, when he sadly succumbed to the AIDS virus).

MIKE, WHAT ARE YOUR RECOLLECTIONS OF YOUR MUSICAL PARTNER, JOE?

Mike: Joe was an exceptionally talented guy.  He was able to learn guitar without any formal training and he was pretty darn good at it.  He played a right-handed guitar left-handed, so it was upside down.  He was a genius.  Even as far back as our teenage years.  I mean, the guy got on a TV show posing as a kid from England and wound up with every girl in town showing up at his house.  (laughs)  He was a showman and really the driving force behind the band.  There’s no question about that.  It was basically his brainchild and I just went along for the ride.  (laughs)

AND JOE, YOUR RECOLLECTIONS OF MIKE?

Joe: Mike underestimated his own talent and indisputable creative ability.  He was and probably still is, one of the finest vocalists and lyricists I’ve ever worked with and he is also a gifted songwriter in his own right.  I always regretted not being able to record one of his compositions entitled “Winds of Time”.  It was an exceptionally well-written song and my modest contribution was filling in the bridge. But even more than that, he and John are and remain my lifelong friends and it doesn’t get any better than that.

ALL THESE YEARS LATER, BUTCH HAVE BEEN MENTIONED IN A NUMBER OF COLLECTORS PUBLICATIONS AND THE ALBUM HAS RECEIVED SOME PRAISE BY OBSCURITY AFICIONADOS.  ARE YOU SURPRISED AND WHAT ARE YOUR IMPRESSIONS OF THIS?

Mike: Yes, it’s very cool.  Very surprising.  My question is, where were those people 35 yrs ago?  (laughs)  But no, I do really appreciate it and talking about it has brought back some great memories from a long time ago.

Joe: Actually, I’m still flabbergasted by it.  Whether 35 years ago or today, it really doesn’t matter to me.  When music is in your blood, it stays with you until the day you die.  What matters to me is that we lived the life and pursued our dream, and now people have responded in a very positive way to our music.  If Angelo were alive today, he would be more pleased than anyone.


Special thanks to: Mike Surprenant, Joe Goodman, Austin Centolella and Jack Tobin



25 comments:

  1. I found your blog just as you got the ball rolling. Enjoyed the read. Thanks and keep up the good work.

    ReplyDelete
  2. Wish my uncle was alive to talk on his own behalf. It wasn't cool to see this article with the the 2 members talking so much Yang. Just not fair or remotely true. My Uncle Butch contributed more than he is given credit for. This was a time when punk and being gay was not really easy to do in this country, in the mid- 70's, and the album did get the band to make some strides in T.V. and some independent films as well for what it was worth. My Uncle Angelo "Butch" Alati lived his life and didn't need to tell stories to make excuses for his direction. He was a major creative force in his time, as a artist and a gay man in the band Butch, named after him. He didn't deserve to be so removed from the history of this great Punk album. It is not the Whole Story by a long stretch. History being re written by the survivors yet again. Thank you for posting a great interview though - it is cool of you to shine some light on this particular underground album from the classic Punk years when it was happening as a new thing here in the USA. Peace J. Thanks for letting me know there are still people into this album, and my Uncle Butch's band. Makes me feel like I knew it all along - my Uncle was a artist who knew what he was doing was before it's time, for commercial acceptance, and tolerance. He lived his Art and Music.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. hello austin, I was a friend of your uncle Angelo"" Butch""...he was an extraordinary character full of charisma and truly a proffessional stage presence, a perfect gentleman with an abundantly blessed talent in so many ways.he was without a doubt an uncle you can forever be proud of.Austin and yes i too have read some of these sad self righteous and self centered comments that goodman and suprennant dellusioned in there smug attempts to steal the spotlight one last time with there redundant sceene stealing comments of comission and omission.throwing everybody under the bus that were the very people responsible for there short ride of semi success in which i happened to witness first hand...i ve played with tens of dozens of bass players in my time ,BUTCH was one of my favorites we grooved well together BUTCH had his own unique style and what made it even greater was the fact that he did not have an ego to afflict it.If you saw him on the streets,outside of the" lime green hair,black eye make up , black fingernails,black lipstick ,shaded cheeks,tight jeans tucked inside his knee high fashion leather boots and proudly warring tight t shirts with FAGGOT printed on them you would never suspect he was different!!! HA!!! If you ever want to know the truth about the apex of semi success that the band got to enjoy only for a short time do to deception corruption drugs egos and innept incompitance of handlers so called managers etc...the band was doomed from the start..if youve seen the rockumentary ""spinal tap"" what your actually watching is the tamed down version of ""BUTCH"" {THE BITCH OF ROCK & ROLL} if you ever have any questions or want to here the unadulterated truth and a few good stories{i got nothin to loose & no hidden agendas. il be more than glad to share some memories and maybe a few pictures. formerly ""Crazy"" but now SAVED and bound for glory Praise the LORD!!!!!!!! Steve Taylor {session drummer?} Dont think so!! Had i not joined the band NONEof that would of happened...Your uncle would of told you the truth,cause he was the only greatfull one...GOD rest his soul.... ps. sorry this took so long but only ran on to these sites a few days ago.

      Delete
    2. Steve, I've spoken briefly with your son Daniel and he advised that I contact you directly. I indeed would love your rebuttal and account of your time in Butch. I have no agenda other than to share the story about that gem of an album and the band's story. Unfortunately, Joe has passed on and Mike avoids my calls to clarify any of the counter claims made by you and other associates of the band. I think it's time to hear your perspective. I will add this information to the article. I can also assist in putting you in touch with a few labels who specialize in reissuing 70's indie albums, should that be something you're interested in pursuing. Again, I'm just here to help tel the story, in any way possible. Please email me at muzik_guy2@yahoo.com and we can arrange for a phone interview if you like!

      Delete
  3. I'd like to respond to your comments here, Austin, so as to clear up any matters left up for debate...

    The primary reason for the article was driven by the fact that "The Bitch of Rock & Roll" is considered a rarity among collectors of 70's rock. Were it not for the album, most 70's aficionados would've never known who Butch were. This article was published to shed light on the band and the origins of the album.

    According to everyone I spoke with, band members & associates of the band, Angelo came along in 1976 just as the band were relocating to California. He did work on the album but left before the sessions were complete. When Mike left for home and Butch disbanded, Joe remained in CA and brought Angelo into his punk band, which also retained the Butch name. All of the work you alluded to in your comment; the punk singles, the TV appearance and the movie appearance took place after "The Bitch of Rock & Roll" was recorded.

    To put it succinctly, there were TWO Butch bands. One from 1972-1978 and then from 1979 thru the early 80's. Unfortunately, there are not a lot of details about the latter period of Butch, so rather than speculate I opted not to include that era, since it really didn't pertain musically to "The Bitch of Rock & Roll".

    I hope that dispels any notion that Angelo was discredited in any way. Should your Aunt or any of Angelo's close friends wish to share a factual account of his involvement in the latter period Butch, I'd be happy to write an addendum accounting for that.

    Thanks,

    J

    ReplyDelete
  4. Thanks for a very interesting and entertaining piece J, very nicely put together.
    If the surving members of Butch are reading these comments, can i say thank you to them for a great album.
    Bigfootkit

    ReplyDelete
  5. Austin is right. Jack if you read this email me.I am sorry to hear Angelo passed away.

    ReplyDelete
  6. I personally know and have met Joe Goodman. If you think the Butch album was good, he has uncut demos that I have heard that are mega hits. Joe needs to record and release them. He is an excellent writer and superior musician.

    ReplyDelete
  7. Joe Goodman Is a very creative writer and musician his style is genuine and real true.... To all rockers
    A fan from Nashville , TN

    ReplyDelete
  8. After reading this I really couldn't believe what I read so I had to read it again. First off Steve Taylor was more than a session drummer ... And because of his parents there was an album made. It's hilarious that mike says he played bass on the album because he didn't Butch did. And the band didn't break up in California they broke up in New York. And after Joe and Mike voted butch out of the band they had a couple bass players Paul and then David. But the two egos of the group cough cough Joe and Mike couldn't handle competition of better musicians. It's funny when people tell a story and then someone tells the real story. Let me know if you want to get in contact with the so called session drummer lol Steve Taylor I would love to set that up. Not to mention all the albums in the garage.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Dan, I presume you're Steve's son. I'd love to hear your account of the band. Please msg me here or via facebook: facebook.com/richterscalemusic

      Delete
  9. Get the Steve Taylor's side of the story about the band he sings a little different tune when it comes to why the band broke up and what really took place.

    ReplyDelete
  10. If anyone in Butch is interested in discussing the possibility of reissuing "The Bitch of Rock & Roll", please drop me a line at permanentwax@gmail.com
    Thanks!
    Lance

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. What do you have in mind. Mike Surprenant

      Delete
    2. What do you have in mind. Mike Surprenant

      Delete
    3. I am sad to tell you that it appears Joe passed away on Nov. 3. RIP my friend

      Delete
  11. Back from the grave. Hi Mike & Joe. And I am not a bass player, I played ass kickin exceptional guitar with the band in 1977. And remember I paid for the band to move from Cali to N.Y. I really believed we were getting somewhere in N.Y. when we were working with Ralph Pinto. Oh, and THANKS Joe for not showing up for that last gig. You say you don't even remember why? Heard about Angelo a while back but didn't know how to contact anyone. my condolences. I'm STILL pissed that that low down jack off of a manager Tommy Lind stole my best photographs of our performances. If anyone has any good pictures of Butch circa 1977 please post here with contact info. I would love to see them. I hope all are doing well. Paul.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Paul, please get in touch with me ASAP. I wrote this article & am intrigued by your post. I'm sure your input will go a long way in fleshing out this story. Msg me through facebook (I don't want to publish my email here). My profile is: https://www.facebook.com/richterscalemusic

      Delete
  12. Paul, please get in touch with me ASAP. I wrote this article & am intrigued by your post. I'm sure your input will go a long way in fleshing out this story. Msg me through facebook (I don't want to publish my email here). My profile is: https://www.facebook.com/richterscalemusic

    ReplyDelete
  13. Hey. I'm sorry I don't facebook. It was a fun time that year. ANYONE have pictures? I do have an album for sale. I guess I will ebay it. Hi Mike and Joe, NO idea where Taylor is. Last I heard he was in N.Y. See ya!

    ReplyDelete
  14. Hello Mike. I am so sorry to hear that Joe Passed. He was a real character and very imaginative song writer. Hope you are well. Long live the Bitch of Rock & Roll, and it will always be in my soul.. Hi Tony!

    ReplyDelete
  15. Joe Goodman passed away on October 20, 2013. An immensely talented, sensitive, couragous, beautiful man...... As he will forever be remembered.

    ReplyDelete
  16. I am so sorry to read some of these comments, you are doing to Joe what you claim he did to Angelo. He has no way to defend himself. I have known Joe for 44 years, I knew him when he was just starting out with his musical career. I had been in daily contact with him for the last 3 years. I see no negative remarks about Angelo, he was a friend of Joe's and Joe always spoke well of him.

    ReplyDelete
  17. Joe Goodman..My brother..May you be rockin in heaven with all the angels to a tune of Peace, Love & Togetherness.To what you have inspired in my family and to the music world..You will always be missed
    Tom

    ReplyDelete
  18. Joe Goodman- in memory of. There will never be another like you. You were my friend and love of my life, I miss you. Vicki

    ReplyDelete